With all due respect, I think this is an inappropriate subject for this forum.

I think everyone has the obligation to protect civil rights and denounce discrimination, writer or not. Doing so in a story can be very powerful. Stories change minds a lot better than fact-arguing EVER has.

John Scalzi (sci-fi writer) put up this post recently, and it mirrors my beliefs about writers writing about politics exactly: Why Yes, I Should Write About Politics.

I think a lot of fantasy (Urban or not)is about buttressing the status quo. Writers are as much a product of their surroundings and upbringings as nonwriters/storytellers are, and are as likely to reinforce or deny that background as anyone else.

If it's offensive to speak specifically about Proposition 8 (and I understand that it would be for some people), why not talk about it generally?

I think -- and obviously I'm not the OP -- that the question is really: Does the fiction writer have some "obligation" to write more openmindedly than mainstream society might appear to be?

I think artists are no more obligated and no more guaranteed to be progressive than anybody else. The stereotype is that artists are liberal-minded but then you have Charlton Heston :) (And nobody can tell me Soylent Green wasn't art, man!)

An inquisitive mind may be more the standard in the artist. Whether that inquisitiveness leads you to support or denigrate any given ideology is less the point.

But the cool thing about art is that YOU can take YOUR beliefs and hopes and dreams (and nightmares), whatever they might be, and bring them to life.

Just a lurker's opinion, but I think jbattis has a reasonable question, even if it is presented in a slightly less than neutral manner for a forum full of people with different opinions on the matter. It's a heated issue, though, so so long as name calling doesn't start I'd say it is fair.

Should people write about Issues with a capital 'I'? I think everyone is capable, especially if they feel strongly on the issue at hand. I don't know if everyone is obligated to; if you're not passionate about the issue, then you'd probably make a dull attempt to fill up your social commentary quota for each novel, which doesn't help anyone. I do think that usually some sort of commentary slips into anyone's writing, whether we mean to or not, like gategrrl wrote.

Fiction does lend us an environment to make social commentary and speculation in. Science Fiction is steeped in it. It can be a very powerful medium in which to do this, as everflame said. I would wager a guess and say that if some authors weren't getting their books banned for controversial topics within, they would feel like they'd somehow failed in the writing of it. Other authors may be more inclined to add nudges here and there in their plots. However, what an author chooses to write is entirely up to them.

That said, if authors still feel very passionately about an issue, there are other 'real world' forms of commentary and protest that are much more immediate than writing a work of fiction. I'm sure groups that opposed Prop 8 in particular would love to have an author's clout in the fight for their cause. In fact, I'm sure that if -anyone- feels strongly about Prop 8, there are groups that would love to have your support.

also, another thought: what do we define as 'creating propaganda' as writers? if we have a feminist or a disabled or an LGBT character, and we're feminist or disabled or LGBT, does that mean we're writing propaganda to 'stroke our ideologies?'

I don't think the topic is inappropriate at all, especially when posted by a writer who is one of the few that includes gay characters in his books while writing in a genre that's incredibly heteronormative.

When 52% of a population votes to make it okay to legally discriminate against a group of people it's important for not just writers, but everyone to denounce that discrimination.

Literature can be one of the most persuasive forms of art we have, and if a writer wants to talk about politics they should. You may not like what they have to say, and you may not agree, but that doesn't mean they should be silent.

Yeah, I'm a big ol' Friend of Dorothy, contributor to No on 8 and Invalidate 8, and passionately activist, but I don't believe in the whole WE AS WRITERS group collective, and I believe even less that we should use our books as propaganda, even for the side we believe in.

ETA And I think we all know what propaganda is, but least I be completely unclear here- propaganda being deliberately slanted text that lies by commission and/or omission to demonize the "wrong" position and canonize the "right" position. My world as it exists contains straight, queer, genderqueer, null, and everything between, so the books I write? Contain straight, queer, genderqueer, null and everything between.

We should not be obligated- in fact, I think we should be actively discouraged- from writing propaganda. Every free-thinking person should, as a human being, stand up to injustice as they see it, but artists create art- and it's the truth that changes minds. Not heavy-handed didactism and manipulations of worlds to make them more right.

And it's a waste of time. Makes you feel good to write a rousing story that rubs your righteous belly, wtfever. Paint a picket sign and join the march. Donate. Make calls. Be part of the PROCESS.

Stories are stories and if you write honestly, your truth will resonate. But if you want to express your outrage against a system you think is unfair, get off your ass and actually do something.

I don't feel like it's my obligation to do anything about prop 8 or any other political issue in my writing. What goes into our books and any other art form should be what's appropriate for that art form. Pieces chasing after political issues just to make a statement about the political issue are rarely true to themselves. When I write a gay character into a piece I rarely sit back and think about all the ramifications of it. The character fits in the book and you go forward.

I think if you are wanting to get in on a political issue there are many forums to do so, but that's a personal decision. Just as the voting was a personal decision and should be respected as such.

~Jana

Have you ever read a fantasy lit story (or anything else, I suppose) that actually CHANGED your mind about an issue? (Righteously reinforcing something you already believed or swaying you on an issue you found tepid to begin with doesn't count.) What was it?

Octavia Butler was a good one for me. Since I grew up in monoculture suburbia, her stories impressed upon me not just "we are different" but "we are the same." Although that didn't really change my mind, I guess, just opened it a little more.

There's a Jane Yolen quote now on the tip of my tongue that I need to look for now, about how a child who's travelled with wizards like Ged and hobbits like Frodo and all manner of species and races will be more likely to tolerate differences in others ... fantasy definitely has a role to play in our understanding of same, even fantasy that isn't directly trying to convey a message.

If we're writing about werewolves and vampires and demons ... we're at least indirectly engaged in a dialogue about how to deal with differences and otherness, whether that's our surface intention or not.

I have a million thoughts on this, so my post will probably come out incredibly jumbled and nonsensical. But I'm going to give it a go anyway. :)

My problem with your original post is that I don't feel comfortable circumscribing fantasy's scope--and saying that fantasy lit is "about" anything in particular (even such a worthy thing as creating a safe space for diverse groups) limits the genre. It is "about" whatever the writer wants it to be about.

I also don't believe in limiting a writer's reasons for writing. For some, it's political; for others, it's not. Neither one is better than the other. Neither is more valid than the other.

Another thing that troubles me is the presumption that there is a consensus view about anything within the fantasy community--or that there should be a consensus view.

Maybe what it all boils down to is--making this topic revolve around Proposition 8 instead of, say, authorial responsibility in general, or the use of politics in fantasy, is divisive. And I'm not willing to demonize people just because they disagree with me, even about this.

Personally, I find Prop H8te disgusting and disturbing (and destined to be squashed by California's courts); that doesn't mean my opinion is more worthy or important than the opinion of a person who supports it.

Possibly none of that makes sense. *Goes back to editing.*

Just a note to say that I'm not seeing any problem with you posting the general topic, Jes. I think your question--"Do we have the obligation, as cultural actors, critics, writers, and artists, to protect civil rights and denounce discrimination?"--is a valid one to ask writers.

We decided a while back that imposing limits on topics bc they might offend readers or members isn't the way we're going to run things. I ask, however, that everyone keep the tone respectful. Beyond that, all topics related to writing & the writing life as connected to UF/Paranormal Romance are fair game.

Melissa Marr--Founder & Admin of FFF

You asked, "Do we have the obligation, as cultural actors, critics, writers, and artists, to protect civil rights and denounce discrimination? Can we remain neutral?"

I think obligations are more of a citizen issue than an artistic one. As a citizen, I feel it's my obligation to speak out through voting, email campaigns, petitions, donating money, etc., on causes, rights, or issues I feel passionately about. As a writer, I feel it's my primary responsibility to tell a story that's true to the characters/world I've created. I don't feel it's my obligation to make social/religious/racial/gender/sexual orientation commentaries - unless it's pertinent to a particular character or to the plot.

For example, I write books where vampires and ghouls exist in secret alongside humanity. As an author, it made sense to me that not all of my long-lived supernatural characters would be Caucasion heterosexuals. So my books have characters of different races, religions, sexual orientations, etc., not because I felt like I had a political agenda or minority quota to fulfill, but because I felt it was a more accurate reflection of the world I was presenting to readers. *shrug* As a writer, I don't like feeling that I "have" to do anything in my books except tell the best story I can. I leave my politics to Jeaniene the Citizen, not Jeaniene the Author.

That being said, fantasy has frequently been a place where cultural taboos or social discrimination is confronted and discussed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the first on-air, interracial kiss was between James T. Kirk and Lieutenant Uhura on Star Trek, for example. So I think the topic of fantasy as it relates to social issues is valid, though heated opinions for or against those issues can be expected.